THE FURTHER CORRESPONDENCES OF MARC SUSSELMAN PART 13

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29 November 2023

MS said:

So, I have read the Counterpunch article written by Josh Frank posted by Jerry Fresia. The fact that the author is Jewish and is the relative of Holocaust survivors gives his opinion the cache of legitimacy and authenticity, so readers are supposed to assume that what he says must be true. It is not, and the cache he enjoys by virtue of his Jewish/Holocaust pedigree is a sham. Even a Jew with his pedigree can ignore, or be ignorant of, the facts which have brought us to this point. He ignores, like so many critics of Israel these days, the 75-year history which has led up to this point, where Israel is being placed between a rock and a hard place by the Palestinians who have deliberately orchestrated this dilemma for Israel so that it will be subjected to uniform world condemnation of its brutality. How have they orchestrated this dilemma? By failing to bargain in good faith decade after decade to reach a two-state solution to the conflict, by insisting, at every turn, that Israel accept the right of return of the so-called Palestinian “refugees” in order for there to be an end to hostilities, a condition for peace which Israel cannot accept if it is to remain a Jewish state – the only nation on Earth with a Jewish majority, compared to the 47 nations which have a Muslim majority. He repeats the canard that Gaza is an “open air prison.” Well, if it is a prison, it is a prison of their own making. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and left the Gazan Palestinians free to determine their own future. Did they use this freedom to build their economy, infrastructure, schools, hospitals? No, instead they elected Hamas to govern them, and Hamas proceeded to use the millions of dollars it received from the IMF to obtain rockets, build tunnels, launch rockets into Israel, all with the objective of fulfilling the commitment stated in its Charter to destroy Israel. In self-defense, Israel has erected strict monitoring barriers to limit the import into Gaza of the materials used to build the tunnels and the armaments obtained from Iran. And for these actions of self-defense, for creating this “open air prison” Israel is condemned for its cruelty.

So, is Josh Frank a self-hating Jew? No, I would not say that, but he is certainly an ignorant, self-deluding Jew, ignorant of the history of the 75-year struggle between Israel and the Palestinians, Palestinians who have refused to give up their dream of a Free Palestine, from the river to the sea – i.e., a Palestine without any Jews. And as for his claim that most Jews are afraid to speak up and condemn Israel, no, they are just not as susceptible to the self-delusion and ignorance that he is.

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MS said:

I wonder if there is a term in the Apache language, the Dakota language, the Cheyenne language, the Iroquois language, the Cherokee language, etc. for a contemporary member of their tribe who persistently takes the side of the White man, and claims that the U.S. military did the right thing by stealing their land from them. Are they called self-hating Apache, self-hating Dakota, self-hating Cheyenne, self-hating Iroquois, self-hating Cherokee, etc.?

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Michael said:

Note: An exception has to be made. Native American Indians have served the United States proudly over the past 200+ years in many of its foreign and domestic wars & military operations. Native American Indians have fought as Army Rangers & Scouts in many conflicts with great distinction & kudos including the Vietnam War. -see Inside the LRRPs: Rangers in Vietnam (p.91) by Colonel Michael Lee Lanning.

Of course, history hasn't always painted the relationship between Native American Indians and the U.S. Army as ideal. -see fictional narrator Chief Bromden in the fictional story: One who Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest by writer Ken Kesey.

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MS said:

Zimmerman has cited to a Wikipedia article regarding the expulsion of the Arabs from Palestine during the Israeli War of Independence in 1948, the implication being that my assertion that most Arabs fled their homes at the instigation of the invading Arab nations, rather than by the Irgun or Haganah, is erroneous. The article does not unambiguously resolve the question, however, presenting data in support of both positions.

But Zimmerman’s inquiry fails to address the principal issue, even assuming that it was the Israeli military which was responsible for 100% of the expulsion/relocation of the Arabas living in Palestine. This leaves unaddressed the question whether such an expulsion/relocation would have been immoral or unjustified in the context in which it occurred. And what was that context? The Jews had accepted the partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, and an Arab state (which would have created for the first time in history a Palestinian state). The Arabs had rejected it, including the Arabs living in Palestine, and the Arab nations surrounding Palestine invaded, vowing to drive the Jews into the sea. Under these circumstances, invaded by four Arab nations vowing to kill every Jew in Palestine, what were the Jews to do about the Palestinian population in their midst which had rejected the partition plan? Under comparable circumstances, other nations would have regarded the hostile population as an enemy constituting a 5th column. They would have done what Israel, erroneously, is accused of doing. Even the Wikipedia article does not claim that the Jews expelled 100% of the Arab population. A large percentage, yes, less than 100%, fled of their own accord at the encouragement of the invading Arab nations that they could return to their homes once the Jews were driven into the sea. They failed in that inglorious effort.

So, what have other countries done under similar circumstances? Well, the most notorious stain on U.S. history was the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII. In 1941, when this occurred after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, there were 127,00 Japanese-Americans living in the U.S., or 0.1% of the U.S. population. Yet the U.S., under FDR’s leadership, saw fit to intern most of them, with the exception of those Japanese-Americans who were willing to enlist in the U.S. military.

What about the German-American population in 1941? At that time there were 1,237,000 German Americans in the U.S., with a total population of 132,164,569, or 9%. Most Americans believe that the German Americans were not treated the same as as the Japanese Americans and were not interned. This is false. The Alien Registration Act of 1940 required 300,000 German-born resident aliens who had German citizenship to register with the Federal government and restricted their travel and property ownership rights. Approximately 11,000 Germans living in the U.S. were interned. Only Germans of second and third generations were not monitored, e.g., General Eisenhower, Admiral Nimitz, and USAF General Spaatz.

So, how do the demographics in Palestine in 1947 compare to that of the U.S. during WWII? In 1947, the Jews constituted 32% of the total population, i.e., they were outnumbered 3 to 1. The Arabs outnumbered the Jews, and had rejected the UN partition plan and welcomed the invasion of the Arab nations to drive the Jews into the sea. No country could have tolerated such a potential 5th column in its midst. With much smaller Japanese and German populations in the U.S. during WWII, the U.S. saw fit to intern many of them, and keep the rest of them under close scrutiny. But Israel is accused of having acted immorally, and cruelly by expelling whatever percentage of the Arabs it did expel. In fact, Benny Morris faults Ben Gurion for not having ordered that they all be expelled – which he believes would have prevented the 75-years of conflict with the Palestinians which has ensued.

Here we have another example of the application of a double standard – Israel and its Jewish population are condemned for having done only partially what the U.S. did under less threatening circumstances during WWII, and which most nations would have no problem engaging in 100%. But when Jews do it, it is unpardonable, unjust, immoral, and deplorable.

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MS said:

I give up. There is no getting through to you or Zimmerman. You have your own version of “facts,” which are not facts, but fictions. I have no expectation that I will change your or Zimmerman’s mind. I only respond to let you know that I see through your bullshit.

The homes that the Palestinians fled they fled because they refused to accept the partition plan proposed by the UN. Had they accepted the partition plan, they could have continued to live in the homes they fled. Instead, they sided with the invading Arab nations who were committed to drive the Jews into the sea. Why should Israel allow them to return to homes they fled when they sided with the enemy who wanted prevent Israel from existing by killing the Jews?

The “occupied” territory is not “their land.” It was acquired by Israel when it was defending itself, once more, against Arab nations committed to annihilating Israel. It could have been their land had they given up their demand to a right of return and agreed to end hostilities. But they have, time after time, refused. Consequently, since they will not sign a treaty which will end hostilities, the Israelis have used the land to build settlements. I don’t agree with the policy of building settlements, but I appreciate why Israel is doing it, since the Palestinians will not agree to end hostilities unless Israel agrees to the right of return, which is non-negotiable.

You claim that you also see things from my perspective, but you do not. You only see things from the Palestinian perspective, which is rife with falsehoods and revisionist history.

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1 December 2023

Michael said:

These posts have become analogous to the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. Marc seems to take the Federalist (or conservative side) and those he responds to the Anti-Federalist side.

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The End.